North American Network Operators Group|
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RE: RBL-type BGP service for known rogue networks?
Roland (first off, you're missing an 'e' <g>), I agree. MHSC lost an entire market plan, hosting third-party secure mail, becasue third-party mail services must allow relaying that is at minimum semi-open. At the time SMTP AUTH didn't exist (Until it's use becomes more wide-spread it still isn't real useful). The anti-relay bunch are killing a valid business model. Even for internal use, we have staff, on client-site, that need to send/recieve their mail from our servers, even when their lap-top is DHCP attached to another net-block. Every week we find ourselves having to open the relays more and more. Next week, I am travelling to the EU on business. That's yet more net-blocks that I have to allow relaying from. A single ORBS forged header, with the right source info in it, will pass right through our mail system, like it was greased. The whole anti-relay jihad is a fallacious rat-hole populated by rabid self-righteous rats who don't have a clue. If they don't need it then it must not be a valid feature <humph!>. ORBS itself should be RBL'd, IMHO. Using the same sort of mind-set to subjectively BL script-kiddee networks is dangerous, as the ORBS bunch has shown. It is all too easy for it to get out of hand, vigilante-style. What are the criteria and who has the over-sight? That said, having had a few of our production hosts "owned", by mwsh in the past, I am NOT fond of script-kiddies and agree that something needs to be done. But, I am seriously resistant to yet another ORBS style regulator bunch. That is NOT the answer. Please, let's all look for another solution. --- R O E L A N D M . J . M E Y E R CEO, Morgan Hill Software Company, Inc. Tel: (925)373-3954 Fax: (925)373-9781 http://staff.mhsc.com/rmeyer > email@example.com: Saturday, July 08, 2000 11:03 AM > > ORBS forge headers (thereby violating the RFC) to look as if > they're coming > from domains you host, then if it goes through, they put you > in their little > black book for being an 'open relay'. No notice, nothing. > > The problem with this is that for hosting-only providers like > my firm, it's > blatantly unfair. We have thousands of users residing on > networks (lots of > encourage them to use IMAP, it's like herding cats to get any > substantial > percentage doing anything other than basic POP and SMTP. > > POP-before-SMTP isn't viable for the same reason that it's extremely > difficult to get people to use IMAP; to wit, users tend to > resist change. > In a corporate environment, you can force remote users to use > additional > authentication mechanisms, as long as you're willing to set > them up and > train the users. Out here in the world, though, if you come > down on people > over something which forces them to change the way they do > things in any > substantial way, they vote with their feet and go to some > other provider who > not only doesn't secure his mail relay, but ignores spam > complaints, as > well.