North American Network Operators Group

Date Prev | Date Next | Date Index | Thread Index | Author Index | Historical

Re: ARIN Policy on IP-based Web Hosting

  • From: Patrick Greenwell
  • Date: Fri Sep 01 03:29:25 2000

On Thu, 31 Aug 2000, Rodney Joffe wrote:

> Patrick Greenwell wrote:
> > 
> > On Thu, 31 Aug 2000, Rodney Joffe wrote:
> > > That's a disingenuous response, Patrick.
> > 
> > Is it? How so?
> Because failure to appear at a public hearing was never an excuse for
> refusing to abide by the decisions made at that hearing. 

Please define "public." That ARIN may be practicing governance does not
make it a government. To the best of my knowledge ARIN is a
private, membership-based organization, and as such referring to any
meetings they might hold as "public" would seem to me to be somewhat of a

In fact, the Organizational structure document is pretty clear on the subject:
 "Membership is required for voting on issues that affect the operations
of ARIN, and for nominating and electing the Board of Trustees and the
Advisory Council." 

ARIN membership is available to those not already paying for IP allocation 
for a fee. So it would be fair to say that one is afforded the opportunity
to buy a vote in the operation of ARIN. If I want anything approximating a
voice in ARIN, I have to pay for it. What's the value proposition? What am
I receiving in exchange for my money?

> The board that made the recommendation/decision was elected by the
> membership. So it is a democracy.

Candidates for the board are selected by a nominating committee, which the
membership is then afforded the opportunity to vote on. The elected board
elect the officers of the organization, and makes decisions.

As someone else pointed out that is more of a republic than a democracy.

> If you don't like the decisions and you don't have the time
> to go to the meetings to voice your opinions, and you don't have the
> inclination to voice them on the appropriate list,

Anyone can voice an opinion on a list, it doesn't automatically equate to
consideration. If that were the case, the loons would rule the day given
their ability to produce sheer volume. 

> then vote for board members who you believe will do "the right
> thing(tm)".

A more accurate statement would be:

"then vote for the board members selected by the nominating committee who
you believe will do the right thing."

> Or run for the board yourself. Maybe I'll even vote for you ;-) 

No, you wouldn't. Trust me, you wouldn't like my position on what
should be done to fix the current state of affairs.

> > > Perhaps you could suggest an alternative?
> > 
> > Well, voting by proxy was brought up, which seems like a reasonable idea.
> You already did (if you're a member) by electing the board who made the
> decision.

B.S. The nominating committee decides who can be elected, and there is no
requirement for board members to vote any particular way.

That does not describe the ability to vote by proxy. 

> Maybe you mean an absentee ballot system? After a while, that becomes an
> inefficient way to run the system.

A democracy is the most inefficient form of government. If you want
the most efficient form of government a dictatorship work best. 

Better a little inefficiency than a lot of inequity. 

Consider that the certain players automatically are "in the club"

"Internet Service Providers (ISPs) receiving IP addresses from ARIN
(subscribing customers) automatically become members."

Those providers are any organization big enough to receive an allocation
according to ARIN policies.

Are smaller provider not affected by the policies that ARIN lays down? 
Further, since by definition those providers are not large enough to 
secure portable space, aren't they in fact affected to even a *greater*
degree than larger providers who automatically receive a vote? 

> DISCLAIMER: I am not affected by the decision, so I may be biased. 

I am not going to even begin to offer comment on that given our respective
positions and involvement.

> I'm not sure how I would feel if I was affected by an ARIN decision.

I am not affected either currently. One does not have to suffer personally
in order to formulate and offer opinions on the matter.

Apologies to all if this has strayed too far off of operational content. 

I'll shut up now(snide remarks happily routed to the bitbucket.) :-)