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2008.02.17 NANOG Community Meeting Notes
For those unable to attend the meeting today, I took some notes during the open NANOG Community meeting this evening. Slides went past very quickly, so apologies for the gaps in some of the slide contents, or for typos that crept in due to the speed with which things progressed. Now off to the evening reception. :) Matt 2008.02.17 NANOG 42 Community meeting notes Room gets fairly packed fairly quickly. Call to order is made at 1738 hours Pacific Time Philip Smith is steering committee chair, and have been since end of October to October of this year. Agenda Steering comittee report philip programme committee report todd mail list comittee report alex merit report Jason (for alex rosens...() who is sick) open discussion There are open microphones, so if you have questions, feel free to use them for questions; state your name, as the session is being recorded, and speak into the mike so we don't have to repeat questions. Steering comittee Betty Burke (for merit) Randy Bush Steve Feldman (elected in oct) Jared Mauch (elected in oct) Chris Morrow ( Alex Pilosov Joe Provo Philip Smith Todd Underwood (ex-officio, PC) Farewell and thank you to Bill Norton and Joe Abley All recognizable via blue badges, hopefully, for the steering comittee (well, except ex-officios) Highlights since NANOG41 Charter ammendments approved and implemented nanog.org/charter.html 2007-01: addition of MLC chair as ex-officio member of the steering committee 2007-02: editorial consistency in MLC nomenclature 2007-03: removal of text specifying various internal processes to be followed within the PC, in the interests of avoiding micromanagement Now MLC really is MLC, a comittee, not just a manager. Selection of PC members Chris Morrow serves as ex-officio on PC MLC brought up to 6 members MLC Chair now serves as ex-officio on SC NANOG infrastructure migration all but main list and website to do dedicated server for NANOG, futures mailing list is on new system already; main list ready for migration now. Preparations for NANOG42 Preparations for future NANOGs 18 month planning horizon is a goal SC holds fortnightly telephone conference calls Minutes published: http://www.nanog.org/sc.minutes07.html http://www.nanog.org/sc.minutes08.html There's not much feedback, so please read and feedback. mailing lists: nanog@xxxxxxxxx engineering/ops discussions nanog-futures@xxxxxxxxx discussion about NANOG list itself steering@xxxxxxxxx how to contact the steering committee nanogpc@xxxxxxxxxxx contact the PC committe nanog-admin@xxxxxxxxx contact the mailing list admins Wow. That's pretty confusing. 268 on the nanog-futures list, vs several thousand on the main list. >From Philip over to Todd now. No slides from here. Best attended NANOG since the bust, 558 attendees so far. Will try to figure out why people are showing up again. The PC members are under general info/program committee on the website, bios are up there if you want to know more; includes academics, small companies, big companies, we try to get a cross section of the community. how does it work? People submit talks, but not early enoug, they talk about them, they put minutes up for review, they talk more about the talks, and they reject those they don't have time for or are blatant sales talks. The submissions are getting better again. Would LOVE to see more talks from actual operators about actual incidents, migrations, attacks, etc. that will really help the other operators. It doesn't matter if they're not as polished; even if you're not sure if it'll be a great talk, come talk to the PC members (yellow badges), they'll help mentor you through the process. Talk submissions closed, and as soon as they closed, 8 or 10 really good talks came in--you REALLY need to start submitting them as soon as the previous NANOG closes! Joel Jaegli from program comittee comments that even if you just have an idea for a talk, even if you don't think you can do it, it can be used as a straw man for development. If you think you're lazy and irresponsible, you can work with the PC to get the talk developed. Ted notes that if you have a good idea for the PC, submit your idea, don't wait. He really wants to see people submit sooner rather than later. The volume of garbage is amazing. He would prefer to rate good stuff rather than garbage. Thank you, for corollary B from Ted Seely; if you don't submit crap for review, don't complain about the shit you have to sit through. :) Todd notes you can bounce ideas off the PC members today, and can help couple people up to do joint talks. They are publishing minutes of the meetings, but there's little evidence people actually read them. OK, some people do read them. So they'll continue to put them up. Lightening talks are open; you just need an abstract and a few points for getting a slot. Submit them and for PC members, vote on the current submissions! V6 only hour, you saw publicity, etc; you won't have normal v4 connectivity; either get your v6 working, or listen to the talk. Questions about process, talks, etc? Blue is steering, yellow is program, Mailing List Committee report MLC: David Barak, Martin Hannigan, Tim Yocum, Sue Joiner, Alex Pilosov, Brett Watson MLC History and People Historical overview susan Harris until 05 currently committe 4+ members appointed by SC plus 1 appointed by Merit Currently: david Barak, Tim Yocum, Brett wAtson, Sue Joiner (merit), Alex Pilosov (chair) Authority: NANOG charter 7.1.2 What does MLC do MLC purpose AUP enforcement cannot change AUP make the ML more useful: The list should reflect the activities of the conference. If you can't point to the list as a justification to attend the conference, we're losing. Goal is to make list operationally useful, and as a reason for people to attend the conference. Not a list police--we expect posters to self moderate. Goal is for people to be adult about what they post. NANOG-L statistics number of subscribers vs 6 months ago nanog-list 8568 vs 8284 nanog-diest 1381 vs 1386 nanog-announce 745 vs 708 nanog-futures 289 vs 268 Current AUP One addition about autoresponders being prohibited. No longer requirement for posting under your real name, no way to verify that. You can read the text online. AUP statistic Between nanog41 and now warnings 6 bans 0 persons with 2 cumulative warnings: 2 one more warning, may be kicked. AUP enforcement policy /nanog-archive/nanog-futures/msg02297.html summary: warning: Any mlc member can warn, MLC votes on appeals from warnings bans: MLC vots to after 3+ warnings. SC hear appeals from both MLC future--AUP signal-to-noise ratio low--what can we do to improve? guiding the conversation without stifling the conversation AUP enforcement tools (warning/ban) not effective in increasing SNR Being clueless is not currently against AUP Hopefully if enough people on the list tell you to shut up, you're an idiot, you'll get the clue, but some people don't seem to be getting it. MLC future -- new initiatives Thread summaries -- time intensive thread statistics poster statistics hoping to get idiots to maybe post *less* web gateway (blog) for threads that do not belong on-list (push vs pull) People should be subscribed to futures so you can be aware of what's going on. List migrations Moving from majordomo to mailman all lists migrated except main list mostly user-invisible web subscribe/unsubscribe digest as option changed mail headers (if procmailing) when? soon! There will be a way to handle unsubscribes via email as well, but not sure how that will be handled yet. MLC is you! This is your mailing list This is your community MLC is NOT the list police--we really do expect the community to self-moderate. Alex does NOT really want to be the Putin of NANOG. MLC transparency (TBD) Automated filters will be posted clearly and accurately on the website Automated monthly statistics will be posted on website Public minutes of monthly meetings posted in a timely fashion on website SOON! (pending migration to mailman) Questions? Peter Harrison, shopping.com, many features could be addressed via forum software; could we maybe consider something like that? People are too busy to read a forum. To move off-topic threads to a forum might be more of a possibility. Lucy Lynch, Internet Society List membership vs attendance at conferences she recommends many people join the list, it's a heartbeat, it allows them to keep track of the community even though they never have any intent to attend a meeting. Threads--if a thread goes in a long time, make a request to the list for someone to summarize the thread, and it's likely that will be enough to end the thread. If you're migrating to mailman for the large list, please get someone to rewrite the MonArch backend, its default filters are poorly crafted for active lists; she can help with that work, and she'll work with Sue. Randy Bush, IIJ, list and meetings are/aren't correlated? As soon as people started flying to the conference, the list went dead; the active members on the list are the ones attending the conferences; this is good. Jay Hennigan, impulse internet; for truly operational items, a mailing list is much more immediate for getting updates on operational issues. Steve Feldman, SC--for web forums, there's been a sense that maybe a forum or wiki for common items could be good for some topics; but needs interest, and someone to set it up first. Merit Report Jason Russell for Andy RosenZweig Interim filler-in for...uh. CRG west is sponsor Network contributions GNI provides wireless PtP network Trango Broadband provided internet access gears Kapela and Ass contributed networking support thanks to duane wessels for caching ARIN provided funding to help support broadcasts and archives Internet2 supported webcasts Beer, gear, break sponsors Merit team onsite Carol Wadsworth, Gale Terkeurst, David Gilbertson, Jason Russell, Larry Blunk, Valerie Wittkop, Sue Joiner, and Betty Burke (in our hearts!) Pete Hoffswell Please fill in survey re IPv6 hour. NANOG 41 stats Albuquerque 450 Total 372 Paid too much applause and laughter to take rest of notes NANOG 41 Albuquerque balnace Future sites 43 Telx Booklyn NY 44 LA, Centergate 45 Not determined (Carribean) Other updates WEbsite is being redesigned and moved to new server new archive WEbcast media improvements done Wirecast encoding software more powerful encoder hardware tunnel unicast feed to ann arbor quicktime streaming format media NOT done yet DV camera capture via firewire over fiber Native multicast from event venue merit-managed windows media and quicktime streaming servers free up Internet2 resources Archive stats oct 07 5,085 hits 21916MB nov 07 3,010 hits, wow, that went fast. Questions? Last 5 minutes is open discussion time. Floor is open for any committee, for merit, for anything else, microphones are wide open. Nope, everyone is very happy for how every one of the committees and committee members is performing. Steering is yellow badges program committee is blue badges mailing list committee are the white badges. Thank you all for attending, hopefully you found this useful, if not, let them know what would be useful for future meetings. Philip adjourns the meeting at 1628 hours Pacific Time.