North American Network Operators Group

Date Prev | Date Next | Date Index | Thread Index | Author Index | Historical

RE: anybody else been spammed by "" yet?

  • From: Scott Granados
  • Date: Fri May 03 21:29:59 2002

Actually, I can agree entirely with this point and it makes sense.  
Having direct mail in the snailmail world cost tens of cents each 
certainly would tend to force the originator to go through more effort 
to insure its sent to and hopefully read by someone who will then buy 
what they are selling.  Someone who only pas a flat fee of say $19.95 
for dial or a few hundred for something faster will push as much as they 
possibly can with no concern for the validity of addresses targeted.

Very good point!

Fri, 3 May 2002, Deepak Jain wrote:

> I think the issue is that in real-world spam, the spammer is actually paying
> some price to make the spam arrive in your snail mail box. This allows for
> some negative feedback inhibition [if the mailings cost exceeds the return,
> its not continued]. With spam, especially in this flat-rate world, the costs
> are _so_ low that there is essentially no feedback inhibition. This means
> that every email box could concievably recieve 20,000 spams per valid mail,
> continuously.
> You'll see how the problem of handling that much mail, especially when it
> has essentially no value in most cases, is as big a problem for the carriers
> & customers as limiting the spam in the first place.
> YMMV, my opinion only.
> Deepak Jain
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of
> Scott Granados
> Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 6:27 PM
> To: Mitch Halmu
> Cc: Paul Vixie; [email protected]
> Subject: Re: anybody else been spammed by "" yet?
> I realize this statement I'm about to make is going to open a huge...
> can o worms but ... and hoefully everyone knows I mean this in the most
> friendly responsible way ever but I'm not sure entirely what the big
> deal with spam is.  Honestly sure I get it like everyone else, in some
> of my accounts more than others but I also get a real truckload in my
> snailmail box.  Just as with all the pottery barn catalogs <no offense
> to pottery barn I guess>:) I have a delete key just like my trash can.
> I know at one time the argument was made, and quite correctly that
> people were paying to receive this service and these messages cost them
> money. Today with flat rate access and many people not paying on a per
> packet basis it seems to me that the responsibility lies with the end
> user to filter properly and or dress that delete key.  I always shut
> down customers who spam and disrupt service simply because I don't want
> the backlash or want specific ips blocked but in a way I don't feel its
> right that the carriers do the filtering it seems tome up to the end
> user.
> On Fri, 3 May 2002, Mitch Halmu wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Fri, 3 May 2002, Paul Vixie wrote:
> >
> > > > I hate to sound like the big idiot here, but what exactly in the email
> > > > you received indicates spammed? It looks to me like you just
> > > > have some secret "admirer" who thought you wanted a account,
> > > > and emailed you to confirm that you do want the account.
> > >
> > > spam is like pollution in that (a) whenever you're not sure if you're
> > > doing it, you probably are, and (b) if everybody did whatever it is,
> > > life would be universally worse for, well, everybody.
> > >
> > > > Random disclaimer: Yes, we're a competitor of's... And yes,
> we
> > > > used to send similar emails to people signing up for an account,
> > > > although nowadays instead of sending them an initial password we send
> a
> > > > confirm URL instead.
> > >
> > > that's the right approach.  no-ip's problem was they presumed my
> permission.
> > >
> >
> > You don't even have to be in the "big idiot" league to figure out that in
> > both the "wrong" and the "right" approach as sanctioned above by a higher
> > authority, an email message (aka spam) is sent to the presumed subscriber.
> >
> > One sends a password, one asks for permission to issue a password on their
> > site. What's the difference in the annoy factor, if indeed one were to be
> > subscribed by a secret "admirer"?
> >
> > Mr. Halmu chose to think, rather than bindly obey...
> >
> > --Mitch
> > NetSide
> >